Lakewood

The following are facts. When R' Aaron established lakewood he did it for a need at the time. People there lived very simply and lived a true torah life. He himself said that it should be reevaluated in 50 years. By that time, the rabbonim were so corrupted and real estate wealthy that they were blinded by their money and continued to spew their crap about being moser nefesh for torah while the current kotler family owns real estate accross lakewood and are a very wealthy family. The system was never reevaluated and it now breeds adults who act like children. The gemarah says that a godol who is somech al shulchan aviv is a koton...... a bunch of irresponsible child-like adults.......

Lets roll!!!

In this post I will address the issues brought up by "jewish-man." I am very happy that he posted all his assinine statements so we can address them and clarify our point.

He claims that there are no "mainstream" ballabatim learning until 2 in the morning. I am a ballabos and I do. And I am mainstream.....

Do you want me to tell you about all the Baalei Batim who come home expecting a table fit for a king and for his wife to be dressed like the queen? Then after fressing his meal and downing his beer, he sits down in front of the "tube" for 2 hours, which has been now replaced by the "holy" internet and blogs away bashing everyone frummer than him??????

This very clearly describes the lakewood mentality, not the working guys. I have a very close relative who is "learning" in lakewood and refuses to eat anything but steak for supper. He will never eat leftovers so they throw out anything that is. He is living off his parents and inlaws and doesnt learn a blessed word. So much for your describtion of a ballabos..... and the rest of the sentence I wont address..... It does not merit a response.

Lets see. There are well over three thousand Talmidim in Lakewood. Come, lets go see how many are in the coffee room. 50? 100? 2% drinking coffee and 98% sitting, learning and shteiging?

This is a lie and you know it. Most of the guys in lakewood spend more time trying to rip off parents/inlaws/government etc then learning. They all have the same answer. "Im in real estate"

Man are you jealous. If you would have only learnt a word or two as a bochur and gotten a Schver of means, you wouldn't of had to sweat your tush off to buy that '91 buick. Sorry Mr Moser. Its too late now.

If this does not personify the entire lakewood mentality, I dont know what does. How the hell can you not be embarressed to say such a thing???!!!! You learned so that you can get a rich shver to support you????!!!! Is this what we have come to? BTW I do have a rich shver but he does not believe in making me into an invalid by supporting me. He helps me when I need it but realizes the value of being a responsible adult.

I am too angry to continue. I will cool down and come back soon.......

Daf Yomi

I am a product of the classic Yeshivah system. I was not given the option to sit on my butt and mooch off the system until I am 40 years old. I am therefore left with no option but to earn my keep by working. My question is: Why does the yeshivah system that I spent 16 years of my life in make me feel like I am a second class citizen for doing the right thing?!

That brings me to learning daf yomi. In the Yeshivah system, they look down at "balabatim who learn the daf with artscroll." My question is, where do they get the right to look down at us. As I stated in my first post, I firmly believe that a baal habos who learns the daf every day after meeting all his other responsiblities is alot better off SPIRITUALLY than many if not most of his yeshivah friends. And if he is learning late at night and needs some help from artscroll, so what? Why is all this looked down upon?

The following story is true, I promise. My wife was speaking to a friend of hers about house prices. The conversation was about how hard it is to afford a house in Flathbush and how many people are buying in lakewood because you get more for less. My wife said that she cant imagine living in a place where she will be looked down at because her husband works. Her friend, a lakewood chick at heart, said that it is not like that at all. She said, "my brother in law lives in lakewood and works and nobody knows." So my wife asked, "is it a secret?" So she said, "no but they just dont talk about it." As if it was a sickness in the family if the husband works!!! This is the same coversation other people have when speaking about cancer in the family. I was flabbergasted!! Moreover, if he is working and everyone thinks he is learning, why dont they realize that he is not in yeshivah?! There really is no accountability!!!

Please post your thoughts.

True Mesiras Nefesh for Torah

Let me begin. I wont start with any of these longwinded introductions but I will get directly to the point.

On my way to work this morning I began to think. I began to think about true mesiras nefesh for torah. Many of my friends are sitting and learning. They drive nicer cars than I do. They take more vacations than I do. They own houses and I dont. Yes, they learn but is this mesiras nefesh?

If you want to see true mesiras nefesh, go to the house of a working baal habos. watch him come home from work, help with the kids, talk to his wife and clean up the house. Then watch him do the daf until 1 or 2 am!! This is mesiras nefesh for torah on both his part and his wifes part. A woman who says that she will take on her husbands responsibility of parnossa and obsolve herself of her responsibilty of chinuch habonim is not being moser nefesh. She is being moser her children and contributing to their eventual demise!! The guy who sits and learns all day is taking the easy way out. Of course he learns but the working guy is the real moser nefesh!!

Let me know what you think.......